Mardave V12 Info Advice & Rules
Historically the club raced a model of the famous Mini, produced by Mardave - the first RC car maker in Europe, on an
oval circuit on carpet (stock car racing) and so the racing is called MiniStox. (see our
history
page for more information).
Later, Mardave brought out a 1/12 scale car, the first kit sold was for a VW Beetle,
so the range was called V12 (V for V.Dub, 12 for 1/12 scale)), the beetle had big
rear tyres (as you can see in the picture above), and this didn't suit other body styles,
so later kits had various bodyshells, mainly the Renault Megane, and of course as the
V12 chassis is common to all cars, the bodys can be swapped, and cost only a few pounds,
so you can change as often as you like. The bodies are painted with standard car spray paint in cans, and come with stickers to cover windows and decorate the car so you can spend as much or as little time as you like painting your
car to personalise it!
Ministox has been kept on in the club name, as we still race indoors on carpet, and
more often than not the circuit is oval (we also lay out circuit tracks, mixed
surface, and even figure of eight cross over racing on occasions). But we now almost
exclusively race these V12 cars (although all the old Mardave Minis are still welcome)
, running many different bodies. Some of them are shown below
For more information on Mardave see www.mardaveracing.com
the official Mardave website which has full details of the V12 cars, and stockists.
Mardave V12 Advice and Tips
click on each question to jump to the answer, or scroll through them all
- How do I get started with Ministox racing?
- How can I make my standard Mardave V12 go faster?
- What is 'Dipping' my motor and how do I do it?
- How do I put someone into the wall!!
- What upgrades/modifications can I make for racing.
- What Crystals are already in use ?
How do I get started with Ministox racing?
If your bitten by the bug, and want to start racing, you will need a car, radio gear,
charger and at least one but preferably two 4.8v (4 cell) battery packs.
New prices are around £45 for the car kit (you have to assemble the car yourself, but this is very
straightforward, and you'll know how to fix it when it breaks),
£50 for radio gear (40Mhz is better than the older 27Mhz band as it has more frequencies, so less likely to have to change crystals regularly, check our news page for periodic crystal lists to try to get a unique channel), £5 upwards for a charger (most require a 12v battery or car battery
chargers to run from, but mains chargers start around £35).
So the whole new setup will run around £100 plus batteries.
Often second hand cars and bits are available, so it is best to come and have a look before
you go shopping !
Once you have the car and gear, running costs are very low, race fee's are £2.50 for over 16's, £1.50 for
juniors, and spare parts are very cheap.
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How can I make my standard Mardave V12 go faster?
1. Ballraces, are a must for the rear axle blocks to replace the std nylon bushings, which soon get dirty and start to melt and slow you down. Don't just fit ballraces and forget about them though ! Every few weeks you should clean the bearings with
a soft cloth, and oil them with thin bearing or sewing machine oil, and check they turn
smoothly (no notchiness).
2. The mesh is the gap between the cog on the motor (called the pinion), and the cog
on the rear axle which drives the wheels (called the spur gear), you need to make sure the mesh between these two gears
is 'perfect', too tight and you lose a lot of power and the spur gear will heat up and start to melt,
too loose and you shred a tooth or two from the spur gear when you have a big impact.
The easy way to set this correctly is to get the gears as close together as possible whilst still allowing the pinion to rock back and forth within the mesh - check this is correct at all 4 quarters of a turn as sometimes the gears are not perfectly round so might have a 'tight spot'.
Also make sure all the width of the spur gear is covered by the pinion. If your spur gear is showing wear, or damaged/missing teeth, then replace it straight away, as it will not run right anyway, and will strip and cost you a finish if you ignore it.
3. Which pinion should I use?...
The metal gear on the motor (pinion) determines the gear ratio for your car, which
is a trade off between top speed and acceleration, a small pinion (eg 12t) will give very good acceleration, but a low top speed, whereas a big pinion (17t) will give a higher top speed, but acceleration will not be as good.
The biggest pinion allowed in our rules is 17tooth (with a standard 50 tooth Mardave V12 spur gear), and this will easily complete
a 5 minute final on a std battery pack. If we run circuit racing, then
a smaller pinion might be a benefit (to give better acceleration, at the expense
of top speed, which on a circuit, where most of the lap is not flat out, can be
better). The standard kit pinion is normally 12teeth
which is fine to get started, and you can easily change when you have go the knack
of driving the car up to a 14t/16t or straight to a 17t. Obviously, until you can handle the car for a 5 minute race without crashing more than once or twice, making
the car faster will only make things more difficult not less, and being able to quickly accelerate back into the race after crashing is more important !
4. If you are using a Mardave mechanical speed controller, solder a piece of wire braid from
both terminals on the top of the disc and run them carefully over the edge and solder
the other ends to the copper wipers. This by passes the resitance that exists in the
nut and bolt.
Otherwise, you can run a cheap electronic speed control (ESC), most of us use the
Mtronik ECO27 which costs around £22 and is easy and simple to setup, and they seem
reliable. The only downside to the ESC is there is a 2 second delay before the car will reverse (as it has brakes), and then reverse is about 1/2 full speed.
Update Mtronik are now selling a 'Marine 15' ESC which is supposedly identical to the ECO27 but has no brakes, but instant reverse - price is same at £22 too !!
It is frowned upon to spend more money than the minimum, so please check our rules for a list of allowed speed controllers.
5. If your foam rear tyres have worn down then change them, the smaller your rear wheels are,
the lower top speed your car will have ! Generally, worn foam rear tyres make perfect fronts, so when you put new foam tyres on, put them on the rear and rotate the old tyres forward.
When mounting foam tyres, I wrap surgical tape (micropore) round the wheel first, and use UHU contact adhesive NOT superglue (wear disposable rubber gloves if you can), spread the glue generously round the inside of the tyre, then pull it carefully over the wheel, and straighten out the edges and squeeze the tyre to spread it out evenly, then check the tyre is straight and true to the rim before leaving it to dry overnight.
When the tyres are work out, the surgical tape makes it very easy to pull the old tyres off the wheels with all the messy glue staying on the tape, and you can then reuse the wheels with new tyres without any further cleaning.
6. Grip.... make sure your foam tyres are in good condition, any break off bits on the front
will affect your handling into the corners,
you may get bite or slip depending on how bad they are.
If you have to use a fresh set of front
tyres (ie when you have just got a new kit), then put these wheels on the rear axle first
so you can spin them up and round off the edges of the foam tyre with a piece of
sandpaper and cut the inside edge straight with a knife so the tyres run straight and
true on the wheels, then put the newly 'tidied' tyres back on the front, this makes
the front 'grab' less, and prevents the car twitching, or spinning out so easily when cornering.
7. Bodyshell, make sure the bodyshell is not rubbing the tyres, even when turning,
as this robs you of valuable speed.
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What is 'Dipping' my motor and how do I do it?
Taunton Ministox Club or any of it's members are not responsible for
any damage or injury caused to equipment or persons either directly
or indirectly by any person acting either directly or indirectly
on any advice given below or any implied instruction given below.
After a few months of total abuse, your motor may be ready for permanent
retirement (to the bin). After all they only cost a few quid so why waste time
and effort on it!. Why indeed, well a new motor is still a lot of money to a youngster and some
'oldsters!' so here's a quick simple way of giving your old motor a new lease of life by washing or dipping it in hot water.
Take a fair
sized empty! jam jar or old coffee jar. Half fill it with hot (not boiling) water.
Add a small squirt of fairy liquid (plain old dish washing liquid). Then immerse the motor right under the water, and carefully connect your 4.8v battery pack to it so it revs up underwater, throwing out gunk. I run the motor for about 20 seconds one way, then switch the wires over to run it in reverse for another 20 seconds - and thats it.
That's all there is to it. Rinse the motor under a cold tap to get all the soap suds
out and dry the motor with a cloth, and then re-oil the bushes (where the shaft runs through the case at the front and back of the motor) using thin bearing or sewing machine oil.
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How do I put someone into the wall!! by Colin Woodford.
1. Having trouble getting past another car... follow them into the
corner and just before the turn ram them from behind, this makes
them go wide and you can nip through on the inside - Extreme variation is to run them flat out into the stage.
2. Being overtaken by another car.......wait until they are alongside
and turn into them, ideally clipping the back of their car so they spin out, it makes them really mad!. The only danger is
that the chances are you will come off worse (especially if you are on
the outside of them) but at least you took them out!.
3. Stuffing someone into the outside wall or door post... Follow them around a bend and try to get on the inside. On the exit from the bend as you
enter the main straight, force them to the outside and into the wall/doorpost.
You will have the advantage of speed because taking the inside line
will naturally give you the extra 2 or 3 feet of speed that you need, and as you are on the inside of the bend, you can lean on them a lot harder than they can lean back !
4. Classic 'T-Bone'...... Enter the main straight and get on the inside
follow the car about 4 feet behind, they will naturally go a little wide
to make the turn into the next bend, timing is important here...
Instead of making the turn yourself, just keep driving straight at full
speed to the inner apex and T Bone them - a classic 'Thats not racing' move :-)
5. The 'Dummy'..... If you are following a car that you know is going to
try to take you out, half way down the main straight as you approach
the car you want to overtake, dive to the inside line, as they try to close
the door, ease off the throttle and turn back to the outside, they will go into
the turn too tightly, and expect you to be alongside them to run into, so will go very wide, and might even hit the wall/stage, thumb back on the throttle and dive past them on the inside and laugh out loud - a good time to mention that 'no-one likes to see that'!.
6. The 'Reverse' flip..... if you crash and end up facing the wrong way
at the top of the main straight, full reverse speed down the straight
and 'Flick' your steering, with practice the car should flip around
and face the right way, get your thumb back on the throttle straight
away and off you go, very pleasing to the spectator. If you have
an electronic speed control, this won't work, as there is a 2 second
delay on reverse, and the ESC doesn't allow full speed backwards :-(
7. 'SHUT THAT DOOR'.... If someone is trying to dive through on the
inside of you trying to 'Steal' the driving line, match them for speed into
the corner and shut the door by turning hard into them, they have the choice of braking or
hitting the apex, another classic and very satisfying, although again, you often end up worse off!
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What upgrades/modifications can I make for racing
- Upgraded steering linkages (track rods).
The standard mardave 'bent wire' track
rod/steering linkages pop off very easily, and also bend in crashes, which can cause a very frustrating first
race meeting for new members, as they struggle to finish their heats with a car which
won't run in a straight line.
The solution is to upgrade to steel turnbuckles, and
a new set of ball/socket links (two pairs are needed, as you replace the bent wire on the servo arm with an extra set of ball links), and to replace the
entire steering links with the new parts. Also, the standard black servo saver is
quite weak, and causes bad centering, so it is worth buying an uprated servo
saver at the same time (they are white and use a metal spring which is much better than the plastic hoop version from Mardave). The cost of a servo saver is around £5
and Mardave now produce an uprated turnbuckle and ball set (V7mod £2.50) which is much tougher than the standard item, and will save you a lot of frustration. This is probably the clubs number one
upgrade tip and virutally all our members run with the uprated steering links.
Note:
I believe the Mardave V12 kits are now coming with the uprated track rods included, they have black screw on plastic cups on both ends - the original wire rods only had a white plastic cup on one end, and just had a bend in the wire to fit into the servo saver.
- Split pin rear plate.
The standard car has a ball socket in the rear plate to locate the motor pod including rear axle on, this can pop off in an impact, which makes the car handling very
'loose' and then costs you time to click back in during a race. Some people
have no problem at all with this, but if you do suffer from it popping off often (once it happens a couple of times, the joint loosens up, and it gets worse and worse), the fix is to
get an old
ministox rear body mount (a steel post with a hole through), and use this
instead of the metal ball in the chassis, then cut the top of the ball
socket in the rear plate, and use a small bodyclip to secure the plate (ask to see one of our cars, as this isn't a great explanation).
This is then firmly mounted, and can never pop off during a race.
You can do the same thing with a small nut and bolt if you don't have
the old Ministox rear mount.
- Fixing a split rear plate.
One of the common items which breaks/wears is the lower plastic plate on the rear pod, after a few months of crashing, it tends to split around the mounting screws, rather than changing for a new one, it is better and cheaper to superglue the plate onto the edges of the axle blocks, I do this even on my new plate/blocks, and make sure you don't overtighten the screws (as this pinches the plate, and causes a weak spot as well), just snug will do, as the superglue is taking most of the load, and the screws are just lining everything up !!
- Rubber tyres.
Opinions vary on running the rubber rear tyres, my view is that they don't actually
grip better than the standard V3 foam tyres, but they are a lot less fussy, and last
longer, so once they are bedded in they are good for months of racing,
whereas in that time you would have to swap over foam tyres several times, which
requires you to scuff them in. Cars running foam tyres all round are still regularly winning the
A final, so it is by no means a required upgrade. Rubber tyres are available from
Mardave stockists (part number is T3, cost is £4.95 a pair including foam liners).
I find it helpful to superglue a plastic tie wrap (cable tie) onto the inside edge of a wheel before
mounting the rubber tyres, as it gives an inside rim for the tyre to sit against,
and also makes it easier to glue the tyre on straight so the edge of the tyre
doesn't 'wobble' as it turns. I normally superglue one half of the wheel and put the tie wrap round it, then when that has set, I cut the tiewrap so the plastic strip butts neatly without the 'buckle' being needed, then superglue that part on and hold it with sellotape until it has dried.
Make sure you thoroughly wash the new rubber tyres in warm soapy water
to get the release agent of them, and let them air dry before mounting them on the
rims, otherwise the superglue will not stick properly!
Once tyres are washed, rinsed and dried, you can then pull the rubber tyre (with foam
liner already pushed inside it) onto
the wheel, then straighten it, and gently lift the edges and run superglue in all
the way round, then roll the tyre between your hands to spread the superglue
evenly, and wipe off any excess quickly before it dries - try not to get glue on your hands, but I always wear rubber gloves as it is easier than picking superglue off your hands for the next 2 days.
Mardave produce a hard foam tyre, the V53 which is a good front tyre when using rubber rears, as it balances the car well, alternatively old worn V3 standard foam tyres all work well on the front for either foam or rubber rears.
- Higher quality motor.
The standard 540 motors which Mardave supply with kits cost £5.50, and are fine to use at first,
however they seem to be quite variable, between batches, and also between
motors from the same batch. Some motors are superb, others are rubbish, which
is very annoying as you cannot tell without buying the motor and trying it !!
Mardave have addressed this with the new V14SH Mabuchi motor which costs £7.50, (and seems to be identical to the Graupner speed 500 motor which we used previously, but is now discontinued). These Mabuchi motors seem very consistent, and run better than the standard V14 motors, so it is highly recommended that when you come round to replacing the std motor which comes with your kit, you opt for this V14SH motor, which you can normally get from our club spares box.
Note:
we do not allowed any kind of modified motors, originally only standard 540
motors as originally supplied by Mardave (part V14) were allowed, however this has been loosened to include the Graupner speed 500 motor, and other RS540SH motors, currently the best and recommended choice is the G3 Mabuchi 25T BRCA Motor £8.95 available from Mardave on the basis that they are still inexpensive, and
consistent.
No modified motors, or motors with open endbells are allowed to keep costs down. (Modified motors
can cost £40 upwards)
Our advice would be to use the std motor which comes with your kit at first, as
until you are driving a full heat with few or no mistakes, the small differences from
upgraded parts or higher quality motors will make no difference until you can drive without crashing, but when you come to
replace your motor when it is worn out (the brushes have gone to nothing on one side, which should be 6 months to a years racing depending on usage and comm drops etc), then upgrade them then. Apart from the steering links, which
you should try to upgrade early on, to avoid frustration as the standard steering links bend or break easily.
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What Crystals are already in use ?
[click to jump back to top of advice]
Our primary aim in running the club is for cheap fun racing, where driving skill and preparation wins races - not spending more money on your car or equipment. As such the club requires the performance of all cars to be as close as possible to each other so anything which is against the spirit of this will not be permitted, similarly we would never stop a visiting driver racing fairly with a car which doesn't quite meet the rules, as long as they are upfront and honest about it before they race.
John and Terry are the official club scrutineers, anyone wishing to run a non-standard car should check with them first, and they will say whether or not the car should race, and any disagreement can be resolved with a members vote on whether the car should be permitted or a rule changed.
The original intention of racing standard cars with only Mardave motors and cells allowed has slowly drifted, so we have put together the following list of sensible rules which V12 racing is run under. If you have any comments, please speak up at any club meeting! The intention is not to clamp down on the majority of members racing fairly, but to keep costs down, and prevent future problems.
1. Cars to be 1/12 scale Mardave V12 chassis, any 1/12 bodyshell can be used providing it is a reasonable representation of a saloon car (ie no GroupC or LP prototype bodyshells).
2. Chassis must remain as kit supplied.
3. Front and rear suspension and rear wheel carriers must remain as kit supplied.
4. Rear axle and spur gear must remain as kit supplied.
5. Motor must be a standard Mardave V14 or G2 BRCA approved Mardave 25Turn motor (if you already have a Mabuchi RS540SH, ie Graupner Speed500, 27 turn boat motor with fan you can continue to use it until worn out), all motors must remain un-opened and unaltered, and identifying labels or markings should not be removed. Any motor must be submitted for inspection by the scrutineer on request, and if it is suspected that it has been tampered with, it will be marked, and will not be permitted to be used for racing at our club.
6. Cars must use 4 sub-C sized 1.2v NiCad/NiMH Cells. Cells must be readily identifiable so should not be covered with tape to conceal their markings. Lithium, Lion or any other non-NiCad/NiMH cells are strictly forbidden.
Note: Mardave produce a choice of 1700NiCad (V24S1 £14.95), 2400NiCad (V24S2 £19.95), or 3300NiMH (V24GP £20.95) battery packs so any of these or equivalents are strongly reccomended - NiCad cells are more robust to being charged while hot than NiMH cells, so if you re-charge packs during the evening to use more than once, NiCads are probably more suitable for you than NiMHs. The extra capacity benefits of NiMHs are negligable for our racing, as 1700mah NiCad cells are capable of lasting for a 5 minute race, so the extra capacity is not worth the extra money unless you already have those cells from another model car.
7. Motor pinions may be changed from original up to 17tooth max.
8. Any servo saver, track rods and track rod ends may be used.
9. Ball races may be fitted to the rear axle only.
10. Speed controller MUST BE one of the following named items ONLY, and Reverse must be fitted and working at the start of each race.
- Mardave V13 Mechanical Speed Controller (as kit supplied)
- Mtroniks/Viper Marine15 (£19.99), ECO27 (£19.99) or ECO20 (£25.99) ESC
- Ripmax Volcano ESC (£29.99-£34.99)
PLEASE NOTE - there is no performance advantage between any of these options, so please do not feel the most expensive ESC will give you any advantage - it will not.
NO OTHER SPEED CONTROLLER SHOULD BE USED WITHOUT CHECKING WITH A SCRUTINEER BEFORE RACING.
11. External bumpers are not permitted.
12. No aerofoils or underbody aerodynamic devices are allowed. Wings are only allowed if supplied with the bodyshell.
13. Bodyshell and chassis must be securely joined at all times the car is on the track.
14. Motor cleaning fluids and additives are allowed (ie com drops).
15. Tyres are restricted to Mardave V12 tyres of the following part numbers ONLY - V53S/V3 (soft foam), V53/V53G (medium/medium grey foam), or T3 (rubber tyres) - no other tyres may be used (ie UFRA Tyres are NOT permitted). Mardave V12 wheels of any colour/design may be used (V2x/V55/V57/V58).
16. No tyre additives of any type are allowed !!
If you intend to alter your car in any way that is not covered by the above, you must
check with the club scrutineers for approval BEFORE racing, any variation from these rules in a car already raced will ALWAYS be penalised, and the car will not be allowed back to race until this has been corrected.
